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Could somebody explain me?? I dont understand exactly what does vintage and niche fragance mean? I know vintage means old but, about perfumes?? I would not buy and old perfume 
Last edited by nora elia (2011-08-14 21:39:02)
I know vintage means old but, about perfumes?? I would not buy and old perfume
Well then, you wouldn't buy vintage perfumes.
As for a definition of "niche", go to (oddly enough) the "Niche" section of this forum and look for it, it's all there.
Hello Dolby thanks for answering, but about vintage, I mean about "old" perfume those which leave an oily sensation on the skin, and smell rancid or bad. Some of my perfumes are like that but coz they are like 15 years old. I thought vintage perfumes were those with the old formula or the first version of it. Am I right? or totally wrong??
PerfumesHello Dolby thanks for answering, but about vintage, I mean about "old" perfume those which leave an oily sensation on the skin, and smell rancid or bad. Some of my perfumes are like that but coz they are like 15 years old. I thought vintage perfumes were those with the old formula or the first version of it. Am I right? or totally wrong??
If the perfume smells rancid or bad then it has turned and you shouldn't buy/use it. This can even happen to perfumes that are only a few years old.
Many older (vintage) perfumes are still almost as good as they were when they were first produced, even if they are 30/40 years old, if they have been stored well, away from heat and sunlight.
Vintage perfumes are generally from before reformulation and often contain natural ingredients (especially things like musk, civet etc) rather than the synthetic ingredients that are in the newer versions of classic perfumes.
I hope that helps. 
Hi Nopasho,
Whoa, what an answer.
Two things:
You are under the impression that Niche and Vintages are "sensitive" topics. I don't think the issues are touchy in themselves, but simply give rise to disagrements due to the fact that they both are notions that are rather vague and difficult to define precisely.
So they are open to personal interpretations, and of course, since we don't all agree with each others, it can turn into heated debates at times.
The other thing is regarding the word Niche. It hasn't got a negative connotation in French it simply mostly means a "dog kennel".
However, and I think this is where the word comes from being used within a commercial remit, it also means "an alcove", "a recess", (the type of place on a wall where a statue would be placed for example) = a specific/focalised place = a targeted market.
@ Starlight Angel, yes, you gave a great definition of vintage
Last edited by Dolby (2011-08-18 13:16:43)
Hi Dolby,
This is from 'Interglot Translation Dictionary' www.interglot.nl.:
'French to English':
niche (fr): cavity, dog kennel, doghouse, compartment, pig-sty, cage, rabbit-hutch, pen, kennel, alcove, prank, trick, storeroom, depository, hollow, storing space, box, carton, roguish trick
I don't know about you, but for the French people that I know -I live some 30 miles from the French border, have family in France...- a pig sty, doghouse, rabbit hutch, cage, roguish trick... do not really conjure up positive images and cosy, rosy emotions.
English people are absolute animal lovers, but the French differ a bit from that, is my personal experience. So a pig sty or a rabbit hutch or a doghouse, they don't experience these as a 'positive vibe words', like maybe some people in the UK do.
But if you find that 'pig sty', 'doghouse', 'cage', pen' and 'roguish prank' have a positive ring to it, you are absolutely entitled to your opinion. It's only semantics. We're getting use to agree to disagree.
Remember, I am only the messenger. Don't bite me, throw me to the dogs or feed me to the pigs like in the British (sorry!) movie 'Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels' (1998, directed by Guy Ritchie, ex-'Mr Madonna') where the bodies of dead gangster rivals are fed and totally devoured by pigs. In a filthy pig sty, no less. Guy Ritchie is the one you must go after!
Or mail the 'Interglot Dictionary' and let them know. It will be appreciated.
Nopasho.
Pigsty in French is "porcherie", never heard it being called a "niche"... ever.
Cage in French is "cage", never heard it being called a "niche"... ever.
Rabit Hutch in French is "clapier" or again "cage a lapins", never heard it being called a "niche"... ever.
Roguish Trick in French is "taquinerie", never heard it being called a "niche"... ever.
See a theme emerging here?
So if I were you, I'd abandon Interglot as a French translation reference sharpish, because they seem to be from another planet.
Don't know why you seem inclined on giving me aggravation. With all due respect, I think I know a "little" bit more about the French, their love of animals, and "their" language.
Deduce what you may of this
Cheerio!
PerfumesVintage basically means a classic fragrance that is at least 30 years old. Think Geurlain Mitsouko, Shalimar, or Chanel No 5. A classic fragrance (for us) would currently be something like Fendi Fendi, Obsession, Claiborne, Opium, and others from the 70's and 80's.
Niche is differant. It's not to do with age. A Niche fragrance is one of those that are (usually) made in smaller batches by privatley owned companies, AND..there is a near guarantee that you will have to travel to the particular boutique where you niche is sold in order to purchase. I mean, you are not so likely to find these in Sephora or online.
Perfumesnopasho wrote:Hi Dolby,
This is from 'Interglot Translation Dictionary' www.interglot.nl.:
'French to English':
niche (fr): cavity, dog kennel, doghouse, compartment, pig-sty, cage, rabbit-hutch, pen, kennel, alcove, prank, trick, storeroom, depository, hollow, storing space, box, carton, roguish trick
I don't know about you, but for the French people that I know -I live some 30 miles from the French border, have family in France...- a pig sty, doghouse, rabbit hutch, cage, roguish trick... do not really conjure up positive images and cosy, rosy emotions.
English people are absolute animal lovers, but the French differ a bit from that, is my personal experience. So a pig sty or a rabbit hutch or a doghouse, they don't experience these as a 'positive vibe words', like maybe some people in the UK do.
But if you find that 'pig sty', 'doghouse', 'cage', pen' and 'roguish prank' have a positive ring to it, you are absolutely entitled to your opinion. It's only semantics. We're getting use to agree to disagree.
Remember, I am only the messenger. Don't bite me, throw me to the dogs or feed me to the pigs like in the British (sorry!) movie 'Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels' (1998, directed by Guy Ritchie, ex-'Mr Madonna') where the bodies of dead gangster rivals are fed and totally devoured by pigs. In a filthy pig sty, no less. Guy Ritchie is the one you must go after!
Or mail the 'Interglot Dictionary' and let them know. It will be appreciated.
Nopasho.
Pigsty in French is "porcherie", never heard it being called a "niche"... ever.
Cage in French is "cage", never heard it being called a "niche"... ever.
Rabit Hutch in French is "clapier" or again "cage a lapins", never heard it being called a "niche"... ever.
Roguish Trick in French is "taquinerie", never heard it being called a "niche"... ever.
See a theme emerging here?
So if I were you, I'd abandon Interglot as a French translation reference sharpish, because they seem to be from another planet.
Don't know why you seem inclined on giving me aggravation. With all due respect, I think I know a "little" bit more about the French, their love of animals, and "their" language.
Deduce what you may of this
Cheerio!
Yes. I think the word "Niche" is more of a slang term, meaning a "small place where said particular fragrance originated". So, I could apply the term in a differant way to illustrate how it is used rather loosely, for lack of a better term in a situation where one might not know the correct way to describe such a fragrance house. For example:
"Let's go down to the niche and have a beer." In this case, "Niche" stands in for "hole in the wall" or "tiny, family owned pub". However, I would only say this if you and I had already been to the pub and privately agreed that it was a, uh.."Niche". Haha.
Yes, this is used incorrectly. However, I will stand up for us all who are guilty of using it. I will say that the reason for it's rather vulgar usage stems from seeing and hearing it used by the ones who are supposed to be in the know, and the ones we newbies are supposed to be learning from.
PerfumesDolby, I agree with you, I don't think that these should be sensitive topics either, until someone tries to debate what is "better".
I also think that Starlight Angel's definition of vintage is very accurate.
...
I don't think the best approach to understand the definition of niche perfumery is to seek the etymology of the word niche. It does help, but then we see different uses of the word in several languages.
We also have that word in Spanish. We also have nicho ecológico which is a term of ecology and you also have a niche market (nicho de mercado) which is also a marketing concept with a very specific meaning.
I think that is how we should approach the idea of niche perfumery: as a concept itself, separated from the own definition of the word niche (in whatever language).
There is a parallel thread about this, where I posted:
If a company's raison d'être is to make fragrances then it is considered niche. This means that the main purpose of the company's existence is the creation of perfumes. Additional characteristics of niche perfumery is that they normally do not invest in massive marketing efforts, such as tv ads. They also have selected distribution channels, as opposed to mainstream brands.
What makes niche perfumes so special? Well, since their purpose is not to please everyone and to become best sellers it allows the perfumers more freedom to create whatever they want, since the target audience are mostly people who are really into the art of perfumery and are not just seeking to "smell nice".
Other brands (i.e. Chanel, Dior, Guerlain, etc.) are mainly producers of fashion or cosmetics but they have a perfume line(s) as part of their business as well. These are mostly known as designer brands.
In that thread it was also commented that brands such as Dana and Coty have the sole and main purpose of doing fragrances, but they do not fit in that definition of niche perfumery, in my opinion, mainly because they are mass marketed.
Last edited by omixochitl (2012-07-30 16:07:39)
PerfumesPaulina,
I have one tiny dissent from your otherwise beautiful post.
The House of Guerlain, up until its takeover by the LVMH Louis Vuitton Moet Hennessy conglomerate of luxury goods, existed solely to produce and market perfumes. They now also have makeup and skin care. Guerlain never produced fashion- although their perfumes were sought after by fashionable folk. Chanel & Dior were fashion houses before they marketed scents, and perfume producing is a secondary aspect of their raison d'etre.
In my mind, Guerlain is a traditional perfume house- as is Caron.
Not a designer, but not really "niche" in the sense of current niche houses.
PerfumesThank you knit at nite! Awesome feedback!
You are totally right, Guerlain is something else.
I wouldn't classify it as niche now, because of the cosmetic lines and its wide distribution. I believe they do invest in marketing communications more than a traditional niche house would do.
But I guess, we can come to an interesting conclusion... we can provide definitions for niche houses but we would have to evaluate each brand separately and see how good it fits into that definition.
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